○ The Fukuahima Crisis 407; There's No Solution-We'll Hafto Give Up.3号機の過酷な現実。

10/22/2012. ENENews.

Japan Nuclear Expert: ‘There Is No Solution’ For Fukushima – ‘We Will Have To Give Up’
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- Japan Nuclear Expert: “There is no solution, we will have to give up” at Fukushima plant (VIDEO) (ENENews, Oct 22, 2012):

Interview with Prof. Hiroaki Koide
Upload by: Whangarei Palace Zama
Filmed: Oct. 18, 2012
Published: Oct. 21, 2012
Translation: Fukushima Diary

Hiroaki Koide, Kyoto University Reactor Research Institute: There are a lot of problems and Tepco and Japanese government state they are going to pick the melted fuel up someday, somehow. I personally think it’s impossible. Because there is no solution, we will have to give it up. We will have to build stone coffin like Chernobyl for reactor 1, 2 and 3. However, at least they must remove the fuel assemblies on the bottom of spent fuel pools somehow before building stone coffin.

Watch Koide’s interview here


Tags: Environment, Fukushima, Global News, Health, Hiroaki Koide, Japan, Nuclear, Nuclear reactors, Radiation



Details.
10/18/2012. Mr. Hiroaki Koide

Severe realities 10/18 of the No. 3 used fuel pool which Hiroaki Koide tells
Mr. Imanishi "well, I am sorry.
Next, an inquiry is very obtained about No. 3."
Koide "yes"
Imanishi "Well, it precedes and they are also No. 3.
There was a report of having put the camera into the inside.
It is in it well.
it comes out of rubble well, is peevish, and is that of remote control -- it is in the midst of having used and removed [ operate and ] the robot and the crane.
a crane being unable to hold and coming out of 470-km rubble -- the shin.
- having dropped.
If it are what and a fuel storage pool.
the point which fell comes out -- the shin.
There was a report to say.
the -- it does not pass -- although he would like for it to be alike, to attach and to ask of a teacher's opinion, how it is -- "
Koide "yes.
You also think that you know.
The nuclear reactor of No. 3 .... explosion intense No. 1 occurred -- a nuclear reactor .
It obtains. -- A floor with the water surface of the used fuel pool which we are calling the operation floor,
It obtains. -- By explosion, all the floors that are there blow away and obtain stripes. -- -- and the building itself became only a framework.
it is said that even the framework will collapse -- violent -- it exploded, and came out and carried out.
huge space [ like a gymnasium ] in which the operation floor is and which comes out -- it is .
Or [ it is a huge crane for moving into it to a used fuel pool or is a fuel switchboard for dealing with the used fuel pool itself ].
Were various apparatus placed?
On the floor, explosion occurs and it obtains.... Even the framework of a building has collapsed.
The equipment which is a reason for, of course having falling downed and waited even for the crane, and deals with spent fuel is also obtained.... If it has collapsed in a fuel pool, I will think that they were a (sigh) and such report that rubble had accumulated into a pool well by saying. "
Imanishi "yes"
Koide "various things have already fallen on spent fuel.
And probably remarkable spent fuel is already damaged.
It says [ that a radioactive material is leaking from inside.
I will consider, if it is in such a state.
Therefore, it is not even made at the place which has a --3 No. operation floor and a used fuel pool that people approach."
Imanishi "yes"
Koide well. -- it does not come to the nuclear reactor of No. 4 well -- that's right to which Mr. Noda therefore performed for 5 minutes timidly also not coming -- however (bitter smile) -- "
Imanishi "yes"
Koide "4 No. and since there was still little contamination, although people can go.
The way of No. 3 is said [ that it can approach and ].
It is の which is in the state [ such a situation / rubble ] somehow where it must remove but [ little by little ].
Therefore, it is although I think that it was surely called 500 meters.
It is remote control from 500-meter that direction. -- A heavy industrial machine is moved and and [ of removing rubble ] is done.
Naturally, it may fail to hold.
It will also happen that what was regarded as the ability to hold easily has not been held in fact.
I think that such [ from now on ] a trouble will occur frequently."
Imanishi "well. "
It is that talk to say and that this obtains to come out and turns out to be.
it is in hydrogen explosion -- it is with the shock which comes out -- it is called a fuel switchboard -- come out, and it is peevish, and a thing 35 tons in weight already sinks, or comes out, and is peevish -- "
Koide "yes"
Imanishi It is if much rubble fine besides it etc. sink.
is it possible that it comes out and is peevish, and this comes out and is peevish and considers" [ which takes out such a thing / like ] a method like this concretely?
Koide "......
Are related with No. 3 from used well, and No. 1.... while operating on March 11, last year in March, it came out and carried out.
Come out.... well, there was fuel of uranium, it came out to the place called reactor core, and that was heating at it.
No. 3 melted altogether and has fallen from No. 1.
It is a certain as well as the subject called having to deal with it first.
It is also although it comes out, and the Tokyo Electric Power and a country have said when or that it takes out by handfuls somehow and the lump which has melted and fallen also becomes empty as for them."
Imanishi "yes"
Koide "There are a lot of problems and Tepco and Japanese government state they are going to pick the melted fuel up someday, somehow. I personally think it’s impossible. Because there is no solution, we will have to give it up. We will have to build stone coffin like Chernobyl for reactor 1, 2 and 3. However, at least they must remove the fuel assemblies on the bottom of spent fuel pools somehow before building stone coffin.






10/18/2012. 小出裕章氏

▼小出裕章が語る 3号機使用済燃料プールの過酷な現実10/18




今西「じゃあ先生、すいません。次は３号機についてお尋ねをさしていただきます」

小出「はい」

今西「え…まあ、先だって３号機もですね。内部にカメラを入れたという報道があったのですが。まあその中でですね。まあがれきをですね、遠隔操作のですね、ロボット、クレーンを使って操作、撤去してる最中にですね。クレーンが掴み損ねて４７０キロのがれきをですね。え…、落としてしまったと。ま、ま鉄骨というふうに報じられて、いるのですけれども。ま、それがなんと燃料貯蔵プールだと。落下した先がですね。という報道があったのですが。そのへんについて先生のご意見をお尋ねしたいと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか」

小出「はい。皆さんも御存知だと思いますが。３号機という原子炉は……１番激しい爆発が起きた、原子炉、です。え…私達がオペレーションフロアーと呼んでいる、使用済燃料プールの水面がある、床面、ですが。え…そこのあるフロアーが全て爆発で、吹き飛んで、しまって、え……、建屋自身が骨組みだけになったのですが。その骨組みすらが崩れ落ちてしまうという、猛烈な爆発、でした。で、そのオペレーションフロアーは体育館のような、巨大な空間なの、ですが。その中には、使用済の燃料プールを移動するための巨大なクレーンであるとか、使用済燃料プールそのものを取り扱うための燃料交換機であるとか。ま、様々な機器が置いてあったのですね。それが、そのフロアーで爆発が起きて、え……建屋の骨組みすらが崩れてしまった。もちろんクレーンだって落っこちてしまったわけですし、使用済み燃料を取り扱う装置も、え……燃料プールの中に崩れ落ちてしまっていると、いうことで、（ため息）、まあ、プールの中にがれきが積もっているというそういう報道だったと、思いますが。」

今西「はい」

小出「もう様々なものが、使用済み燃料の上に落ちてしまっている。そして、多分、かなりの使用済み燃料は、すでに破損をしていて。中から放射性物質が、かん、周辺に漏れてきているという。そういう状態だと、思います。そのため、え…３号機の、オペレーションフロアー、使用済燃料プールのある場所には、人が近づくことすらが、できません」

今西「はい」

小出「え…４号機という原子炉に、まあこないだから、こないだも野田さんが、５分間だけこわごわ行った、そうですけれども（苦笑）」

今西「はい」

小出「４号機、は、まだ汚染が少なかったので、人が行く事ができるわけですけれども。３号機のほうは、近づくことすらが、できないという。そういう状況で、なんとか、がれきを少しずつでも撤去をしなければいけないという、状態になっている、のです。ですから、確か５００メートルと言ったと思いますけれども。５００メートルの彼方から、遠隔操作で、え…重機を動かして、そしてがれきを撤去するというようなことをやっているわけで。当然、つかみ落としたりすることはあるでしょうし。え…簡単につかめると思ったものが実はつかめなかったというようなことも起こるでしょうし。これからこのようなトラブルというのは、度々起きてくるだろうと私は思います」

今西「ま、その中でですね。あの、もうすでにこれは、えーと、わかってる話ですが。え…水素爆発でですね、での衝撃でですね、燃料交換器というですね、重さ３５トンのものが、すでに沈んでいたりとかですね」

小出「はい」

今西「え…それ以外にも細かながれきなどが沢山、沈んでしまっていると。これは、そういうものを取り出すようなですね、方法というのをですね、具体的にこう考えることっていうのは、可能なんでしょうか」

小出「………。使用済み、ん、そうですね、１号機から３号機に関しては……３月、去年の３月１１日に運転中、でした。で……炉心というところに、まあ、ウランの燃料があって、で、そこが発熱していた。え…それが１号機から３号機全て溶け落ちてしまった、わけで。え…それをまず何とかしなければいけない、という、課題はもちろん、ある、のです。で、東京電力や国は、溶け落ちてしまった塊も、いつか何とかつかみ出すという事を言ってるわけですけども」

今西「はい」

小出「私自身はそれはできないと、思います。もうしかたがないので、それについては諦めて、１号機から３号機に関しては、原子炉建屋そのものの周りに大きな石棺と、呼ぶような、チェルノブイリ原子力発電所の事故の収束でやったような、大きな、建屋を、で、封じ込めると、いう作業をするしかないだろうと思っていますけれども。その石棺を作るためには、まずは使用済燃料プールの底に沈んでいる燃料だけは、なんっとしてでも、外につかみ出さなければいけないと、思います」

今西「はい」



Koide -- it is -- spent fuel pool [ of No. 4 ] . it is destroyed considerably, and a reactor building will collapse. The Tokyo Electric Power works and is needed noting that he would like to, take out by handfuls the fuel in the used fuel pool of No. 4 early if possible. It comes out and still takes in one more year or more till December, next year that is, since there is little contamination of the radioactivity of the whole building as it came out and I had No. 4 heard also like the point.
But if December, next year comes, it will be the Tokyo Electric Power has said that the work which takes out spent fuel will begin out of the spent fuel pool of No. 4. "
Imanishi "yes"
Koide "it is although it wishes I want me to do earlier.
probably, if the time of the about will be taken, it will consider.
But the way of No. 1 to No. 3 is since contamination inside a building is high compared with No. 4.
If the time of [ by the time it can begin first the work of taking out fuel by handfuls, from the bottom of the used fuel pool ] many years will be taken, it will consider.
Although it obtains and a lot of rubble has already collapsed also in a --3 No. used fuel pool now, as pointed out.
It is bad, if the structure of a building and the steel frame which obtain, -- reactor building is a structure well, is peevish, and has become a framework which say a form and which have been lost to come out cannot be stepped first of all before taking out the rubble first.
It is bad if the broken crane cannot move aside, either.
and a spent fuel switchboard collapsed in a used fuel pool -- it is bad if it does not も and take out.
And it is said that rubble must also be taken out.
Obtain.... work and the work which must be done are piles -- it is .
Since the radioactivity -- with violent itself is the pollution spot.
It does by a (sigh) and remote control. -- I think that it probably becomes things.
It obtains. -- As it occurred also in it this time, I fail to hang a framework and also think that sending in the dangerous direction rather again happens frequently after this.
It obtains. -- If it becomes so, in what year does the work itself take?
I have such uneasiness called the ability to really do too. "
Imanishi "-- just for a moment -- Only an instant -- "
above


小出「で、え…今現在は、４号機の使用済み燃料プール、が、え……原子炉建屋がかなり破壊されていて、崩壊するかもしれないということで、え…なるべく早く、４号機の使用済燃料プールの中の燃料をつかみ出したいとして、東京電力は作業をして、いるのです。で、４号機は先ほども聞いていただいたように、建屋全体の放射能の汚染が少ないので、比較的作業が容易、で、来年の１２月まで、つまりまだあと１年以上かかるわけですけれども。でも来年の１２月になれば、４号機の使用済み燃料プールの中から、使用済み燃料を取り出す作業が始められるだろうと、東京電力が言っている、のですね。」

今西「はい」

小出「もっと早く私はやってほしいと願いますけれども。多分、そのぐらいの時間はかかるだろうと、思います。でも１号機から３号機のほうは、建屋の内部の汚染が、４号機に比べて、高いので。まずその、使用済燃料プールの底から、燃料をつかみ出すという作業を始められるまでに、何年も、という時間が、かかるだろうと、思います。今、ご指摘くださったように、え…３号機の使用済燃料プールの中にも、大量のがれきが、すでに崩れ落ちてしまっている、わけですけれども。まずそのがれきを取り出す前に、形をもうすでになくなっている、え…原子炉建屋の、まあ構造物ですね、建屋の構造物、骨組みになっている鉄骨とかを、まずはどけなければ、いけない。壊れたクレーンもどけなければ、いけない。そして、使用済燃料プールの中に崩れ落ちてしまっている、使用済み燃料交換器、も、取り出さなければ、いけない。そして、がれきも、取り出さなければいけないという。え……作業、必ずやらなければいけない作業が山積みなの、ですが。それ自身が猛烈な放射能…の汚染現場ですので。（ため息）、遠隔操作でやる…ことに多分なると思いますし。え…その中でも今回起きたように、骨組みを吊り落として、むしろまた、危険な方向に行かせてしまうというようなことも、これから度々起こると思います。え…そうなると作業そのものに、何年かかるのか。本当にできるのだろうかという、そういう不安が、やはり私には、あります。」

今西「…ちょっと一瞬だけ…」

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