ぼやかせていただいております。

更新 ロコさんとの対話 2

2010年12月08日 08時13分22秒 | Weblog
ロコさんとの対話1
更新2
独立にではなく、ロコさんのロコさんへの応答へのコメントのなかで、紹介されているようだ。

Locohama
BTW please check out Sora-san's comments here: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanak


更新
ロコさんからこちらにコメントがきた。ロコさんのところで公開されていないので、なにかロコさんのところの読者に見せたくないものがあるのかもしれない。
なにかまずいことを書いてしまったのか?
なにかご意見があればお気軽にお聞かせいただきたい。
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・

ロコさんのところの A liberating thoughtにコメントしておいたが、なぜか、application error で投稿できないので、メールで送っておいた。

Thank you for your helping your Japanese students "seeing all humans as humans"

As for integrating into Japanese society, it is really up to you.

I look upon Japan favorably just as you seem to look upon the U.S. favorably.
I am optimistic about Japan just like young mixed people in Japan in the video.

The way I see it, people in Japan and in the U.S. have the same tendency to look upon the unknown with fear and curiosity.
But Japan and the U.S. have different histories.
Black people are relatively new member to Japanese society.
Black people don't start their life here as slaves.
In Japan in the mid-1950s , Meredith, an American civil rights movement figure. stated, "he was never conscious of his racial identity as he was in the US. "
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/201f02874854b5e1f9dfeb32b905267a
The Japanese don't share the same bias with American people about black people just as, say, American people don't share the same prejudice against the Japanese with Korean people.

I'm not sure if you watched the video I cited.
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/94fed8124550d9ad777ad206f7e78ff5
A young mixed race guy says

4:00
日本でハーフとして生まれて自分の肌の色とか目の色とかで弱い、って錯覚している人がいるんですけど、それ、本当に強さだから、もっともっとその弱さと思っているところを誇って頑張っていきましょう
There are some mixed-race people born in Japan who mistakenly think of the color of the skin and the eyes as a weak point, but in reality it is your merit, so be proud of what you think of your demerit and let's keep it up

This is a strong message to the mixed-race people and the traditional Japanese.

I am aware that one way or another some Japanese people have bias against black people, (that is probably why some young mixed race people thought of the color of the skin and the eyes as a demerit in the first place).

I am realistic about Japan. They might sometimes go through some troubles because of how they look and it might take some time to realize the society they wish.
But we have people like this young man now who can send a strong message like that to us presumably because he trust our society and people in it. I think it wont't take 400 years until they can integrate into Japanese society. They are already participating in Japanese society as one of us, speaking up to us, interacting with us, some with troubles, others with hopes.


Loco in yokohama is trying to get " a better understanding of the world and how people in it think and feel". I appreciate it. There is something to ask from a grumpy Japanese ojisan so that he may not get grumpier in reading your posts. Just read it half-heartedly and don't feel pressured.

You sometimes sounds like nobody except your students in Japan see humans as humans.


"I used to think of..... the Japanese guys as the Space Monkeys, only they don’t know they are" (What’s up, Loco? Question #4)


It might be the case that a few black guys and a few Japanese guys act as if inciting violence but it is not the case that blacks guys or Japanese guys incite violence; it is just that a few look at each other that way.

As I said before I am not sure if and how the Japanese people cower, flinch, and fleet at the sight of you, but I am sure some people stare at you and some people might have cowered at the sight of you. I understand it is frustrating enough and I don't want to make light of it, getting angry and furious is justified, but please get angry at this (Japanese) guy and that guy . not Japanese guys as Space Monkeys.(And avoid a physical confrontation.)

You said , "when I’m in the company of my Japanese girlfriend" "The look varies from curiosity to envy to shock to disgust (if I’m reading the faces right). The Japanese women represent the curious and envious and shock, the Japanese men show shock too sometimes, but generally bring the disgust." ( What’s up Loco? Question #2).

What is lacking here is exactly the real voices of the Japanese people which should represent how people in it think and feel. It is like a story told by a white person speculating about black people and black people wondering "hey what's he talking about?"

I can't speak for other people, but I for one would not feel shock; much less, disgust at the sight of a black person with a Japanese girl at all--- Perhaps curiosity yes.
I remember seeing a black person a few years ago in the company with a Japanese woman and their cute baby and another Japanese female friend on the Chuouo line he was a gentlemanly guy. A white woman happened to ride on the train so he gave a seat to her, talking to her in English while Japanese wife and her friend were chatting in Japanese. It was just one of the heartwarming scenes.


I am happy to hear that you are not Debito. But you admire Debito,which worries me. Debito and Tony Lazro did a good job at Otaru onsen . Since then they went different ways. The way I see it, his wife and Tony have been showing how Japanese and non-Japanese can get along by their examples. By contrast, Debito has been engaging negative campaign against Japan so much so that a young innocent guy who was curious about Japan give up coming to Japan,Trying to change Japanese society for better is welcome, but it makes no sense and no difference if you don't discuss the problem with the Japanese people in Japanese as I have argued and if the information provided are often misguided and won't accept corrections. The blog is not open minded and it just provides the oasis for Japan haters with something like Paris syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
and attracts many expats who want to let steam off.

The photos are nice. I like to hear the regular conversations with Japanese students. That also helps other people understand it is just a common scene that people like you and the Japanese people stay together.

Too demanding? maybe.Just let it go in one ear and out.



参照

日本人に対する異様な視線と”黒人”に対する異様な視線


道行く”黒人”への視線
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Unknown (Loco)
2010-12-08 10:40:49
Sora-san,
You have a very high opinion of your people which you should I guess. But, what u don't realize is you are not typical. Your mind is much more open than most of your fellow Japanese.
When I make statements about people i base it on experience conversations and observation of behavior. Sure there is a margin for error and I try to allow for that in my description, as I should. You either can believe me or not. I don't have video evidence to back up my claims. I just use the video camera in my mind which I admit can be senstitive and too observant at times.
You offered to meet me and follow me around one time. i couldn't really take that seriously because it would be a challenge to say the least. But i think it might be useful for you to see your people through my eyes so you can stop speaking to me like i speak in hyperbole when actually I'm downplaying much of what I see. Like I say, it doesn't happen every moment but it happens everywhere and every day, and i welcome you to come and see for yourself.
I don't know what to say about those ha-fu kids except that I appreciate what they are trying to do and their pain. I hope their efforts will result in some positive changes occur within themselves, something that bolsters their own sense of self-worth so that they can withstand the onslaught they are sure to continue to be subject to theoughout their lives in Japan for it will be some time before their dreams of equal treatment are realized. I do not have such a vested interest in Japan as they do (being citizens and what not) so I have not their motivation or desire.
Debito is a fighter. His methods may be questionable at times but his goals are admirable, and if his work has deterred people from coming to Japan, so what. Jaoan is certainly not for everyone. You have to be really tough to put up with the foolishness here. And really patient. And some people just know themselves well enough to know that they could never tolerate the stuff Debito addresses and tolerates. You should be happy he kept the away. Who knows? That guy may have come here and snapped and hurt himself, another person, and worst of all the set the movement Debito is spareheading towards equal treatment for foreign born citizens back years! Youknowhutumsayin?
If I sound like nobody besides my students see me as human, it's not accurate. What is accurate is what I say: Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me. And their unwarranted fear is what makes me feel dehumanized. That's the way it is. I don't think it's necessarily racism, oe xenophobia. It's probably just your "Iwakan" but the impact it has on a person, a target, when iwakan is being experienced by nearly EVERYONE in your vicinity is pretty overwhelming and difficult to ignore or tolerate, Sora-san. And it seems to be something you refuse to understand. it's my only point really. it's the source of my anger, when it arises. It's the cause of my loss of patience when it occurs. It7s the bane of my existence in Japan, and if I didn't receive so much love from the people i do know, for balance you see, I'd have left Japan years ago and warned everyone i knew at the top of my breath not to go or to prepare yourself for a very tough assignment!
Anyway, I'll get back to you next time Sora san
peace Loco

Unknown (空)
2010-12-08 11:22:55
ロコさん
ありがとうございます。

like i speak in hyperbole when actually I'm downplaying much of what I see.

いやいや、そいうことではなくて、わからない、ということです。そして、たぶん多くの日本人もわからないでしょう。

And some people just know themselves well enough to know that they could never tolerate the stuff Debito addresses and tolerates

具体的にはどういうことですか?
例えば、日本では外国人を殺しても赦されるということですか?


Debito is a fighter.

誰と戦っているのですか?



His methods may be questionable at times

いつもでしょう?

but his goals are admirable,

目的は何なんですか?



if his work has deterred people from coming to Japan, so what. Jaoan is certainly not for everyone

つまり、ロコさんは嘘付いて憎悪を植え付けるのもいたしかたない、と。


You have to be really tough to put up with the foolishness here.

どういうことですか?


Debito is spareheading towards equal treatment for foreign born citizens back years!

具体的に何をしたか教えていただけますか?


Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me.

それはどうでしょうか?どうやって、確かめたのですか?


a target, when iwakan is being experienced by nearly EVERYONE in your vicinity is pretty overwhelming and difficult to ignore or tolerate, Sora-san. And it seems to be something you refuse to understand.

それは逆でしょう。その点について理解しようとしているのです。
ただ、わからないわけでもない。ぼくも英語圏で投稿するときには多少似た感じをもつ。

I'd have left Japan years ago and warned everyone i knew at the top of my breath not to go or to prepare yourself for a very tough assignment!

まあ、たしかに、似たようなことしている米国嫌いの非米国人もいますよね。


I'll get back to you next time Sora san



Could you tell me why my comment was not posted on your blog?
You couldn't tolerate it? or it was beyond just iwakan Or you didn't see want your readers to know that there was a Japanese who didn't look at interracial couple with disgust? or what?
Unknown (Unknown)
2010-12-08 12:07:07
コメント欄

http://www.locoinyokohama.com/2010/12/07/a-liberating-thought/#comment-108471323


For a New Yorker, the opposite of observ
ant is victimization, death, or missed opportunities to improve one's lot


ニューヨークって本当にこわそうですね。


Unknown (loco)
2010-12-08 12:15:25
your comment was dealing with too much, much of which was not relevant to that post...this is an better place for it maybe.
Naturally you would approve of that. in Japan, "My darling is from another world thus he does ridiculous and funny stuff but I love him just as i would love a regular person" is a huge step forward in japan. But, makes me uneasy to say to least. Have to agree on with big D on that one!
Unknown (空)
2010-12-08 12:26:02
your comment was dealing with too much, much of which was not relevant to that post...this is an better place for it maybe.

なんだかよくわからない理由ですね。

ただ、こちらでやりたいというのでしたら、それは構いません。

Could you leave the link to this post on your comment section to be fair?



My darling is from another world thus he does ridiculous and funny stuff

なにをおっしゃろうとされているのかよくわからない。

Have to agree on with big D on that one!

ビックDってどなたですか?
Loco (Loco)
2010-12-08 14:32:42
Big D= Debito
My darling is from another world thus he does ridiculous and funny stuff"= My darling is a foreigner"
Unknown (空)
2010-12-08 16:02:00
ろこさん
ありがとう。

Big D= Debito

なるほど有道氏のことですね。
有道氏はトニー氏に関して意見というのは、
祝「ダーリンは外国人」の映画化、「トニー」についてパロディーマンガ

Posted by debito on December 31st, 2009

www.debito.org/?p=5599

これですけど、ロコさんは有道氏の評価に賛成するというわけですね。

また、ロコさんは、外国人を殺しても日本では容赦されるとか、嘘や誇張をいって日本にくるな、とかいうことを推進したいわけですね?



My darling is from another world

まず、世界ではなくて、違う国ということですね。

thus he does ridiculous and funny stuff

ダーリンは外国人、お読みになったのですか?
私は電車の中でモニターに映るの見ましたけど、とくにトニー氏をからかったようなところはないですよ。
夫婦の生活をコミカルに描いているのであって、外国人をからかって描いたようなところはない。
具体的にあれば教えていただけますか?

また、在日外国人の住居の問題を扱っていたのもありました。
すべて日本語で。
こういった活動はお嫌いだというわけですか?




Unknown (Unknown)
2010-12-08 19:41:49
LOCOさんのサイトを前に見たときは理性的な人だと思ったんですが、結局は信者になってしまうんですね。
人は信じたい事だけを信じると言う事かな。
Loco (Loco)
2010-12-09 01:39:19
As much as I would like to continue this discourse with you Sora-san, sorry but unfortunately i can not. I can't communicate well enough in Japanese and I feel that my English is being misunderstood and/or misconstrued at your end (but i believe the former) to the detriment of the discourse. If you would like to meet in person and have a discussion, or if you would like to see for yourself what I speak of (I'm afraid for you though because it may shock you to death to see how people behave judging from some of your retorts) I'm open to that, but as far as discussing these ideas our mutual blogs I'm afraid it has become mendokusai. If you would rather not meet that's cool too.
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 02:03:08
Loco san

Thanks.


>
”I can't communicate well enough in Japanes”



Let me make sure a few points.

1)Did you understand what I wrote here on this comment section.
2)Or is it just that you can't write well in Japanese?


>
I feel that my English is being misunderstood and/or misconstrued at your end (but i believe the former) to the detriment of the discourse.

Just point out where I misunderstood you.


>
If you would like to meet in person and have a discussion, or if you would like to see for yourself what I speak of (I'm afraid for you though because it may shock you to death to see how people behave judging from some of your retorts) I'm open to that,


I'd rather have an open discussion so everyone can see.

But as for meeting in person to see what is going on around you, I feel like it.
How long do you think it takes to see what you were talking about? Could you send me e-mail so we can set up the time?
Let's see when we can meet.

>
as far as discussing these ideas our mutual blogs I'm afraid it has become mendokusai

→That's okay.
But I wonder why you didn't leave the link to this post on your blog.

You don't have to respond nor discuss, but I want your readers to read my post and if possible, I want to hear their opinions and criticisms.


Loco (Loco)
2010-12-09 02:10:55
btw, what I was saying about Debito is what what was told to me personally by him, not via his blog. We met at a writers conference in Tokyo last summer (2010) where he gave a course on publishing, and during that course he explained about himself, his thoughts on that film, and a number of other topics... I'm not a reader of his blog.
Loco (Loco)
2010-12-09 02:24:49
the link is there....look in the comment area
Like for example "space monkeys" It seems to me you took that to be some kind of slur where it was not and in the end I said I was the Space Monkey. You skipped over that part and decided to use what served your purposes. thats ok though. Thats what people do but I dont like to be misconstrued. Also, when you respond to my post (and I may be guilty of this as well) you tend to pull the points out of context, responding to the ones you choose and totally disregarding the rest.
Yes I understood what you wrote, but you ask questions I've answered numerous times on posts on my blog. Regurgitating my writing is not what I came to your site to do. Or, rhetorical questions like "what is Debito spearheading" or "what is he fighting"? If these are serious questions I dont have time to answer them. Read his blog or interview him if you want answers to those question. But Im sure you know the answers. At least I think/hope you do and that's the reason you don't like him.
Anyway, you got my email. Lets make arrangements sometime next year. I got plans for the rest of this year. Maybe you can secretly videotape it! That would be fun. Of course we can't be seen together because people will not be themselves if they know we are together. (that is my experience) so you would have to keep your distance. lol This sounds like fun...in a sick way.
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 02:26:27

what I was saying about Debito is what what was told to me personally by him,

But did you read her manga?
I just watched the monitor on the train.
Of course there are comical elements in it because it is after all a comic, but it is not funny because Tony does funny things but because of the interactions between the two.

Through the interactions, they show how it is as regular as any couple.


What I was saying on the post above is the same thing.
Gaikokujin is a minority here and it is relatively unknown.

Just showing regular scenes in which Japanese and the minority are interacting and working together just as Japanese people are interacting and working together will help both Japanese and non-Japanese understand each other.
That is why I asked you to write about regular conversations with your Japanese students.

To understand each other, we don't necessarily have to explain each other, we don't have to criticize, but but just setting examples and showing the instances are effective.

Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 02:54:17
>It seems to me you took that to be some kind of slur where it was not and in the end I said I was the Space Monkey.


I watched "fight club" Whether you were insinuating slur was not the problem. The problem was that it seemed to me you were lumping the Japanese guys together.


>you ask questions I've answered numerous times on posts on my blog.


Sorry, probably there are misunderstandings here.
When you thought I was regurgitating, could you just point out where you answered already?


>
rhetorical questions like "what is Debito spearheading" or "what is he fighting"? If these are serious questions I dont have time to answer them. Read his blog or interview him if you want answers to those question.

It IS serious questions and I am a regular reader of his blog and that's why I am asking.
You said you were "not a reader of his blog."
Then I wonder why you think he is a fighter, what you know about what he had done towards equal treatment.
Loco (Loco)
2010-12-09 09:30:07
Here's an interesting article on Debito that answers all your questions
http://www.seekjapan.jp/article-1/488/Arudou:+Angelic+Activist+or+Devilish+Demonstrator?
As for My darling is a foreigner, i didn't see the movie nor read the books because the title rubs me the wrong way. It speaks to the same mindset that isolates and ostracizes and dehumanizes people not of Japanese descent. Reducing people of many different cultures and backgrounds to the title "foreigner" achieves this and is reflective of the mindset I encounter regularly. "Do foreigners drink green tea?" "You don't like Mcdonalds???But youre a foreigner??? How can that be?" Perhaps these books did make steps towards addressing these issues but the name kept me from discovering this. Kimoochi warui!

As for the "Space Monkey" thing, clearly in that post I am talking about the Japanese guys who do the behaviors that provoke the violent reaction Ie, pulling wallets from pockets, giving my girl a dirty look, etc...For you to take that to mean all japanese guys is I believe a purpose misconstruing of my intention. I don't take kindly to that kind of thing, Sir. I go out of my way in my writing to make sure that it's clear that I'm not the kind of person who sees Japanese people as bad people. I focus on the good as well as the bad. I think my blog has balance. If I say Japanese people are really polite and peaceful people, do you come on my blog and say "please don't generalize about Japanese. We are not all polite and peaceful people. Some of us are just as rude and hate-filled as people anywhere else in the world"? Of course not. Because you know i don't mean all Japanese people. Or, you believe such a statement to be true, in general. When you come on my blog and suggest otherwise it shows me that you are looking for a forum to make your point with all foreigners. Not with me and not with my post. Sometimes I can tolerate this, sir, and sometimes I can not. Which brings me to that last post and your comment. I wrote an especially neutral piece about why I am not like Debito and why I still believe that I am part of the change that is occurring in Japan, and your response is to tell me not to generalize about your people??? And to express your doubt as to the validity of my assertions about the behavior of SOME Japanese people, as it pertains to fear of me??? And to tell me that if I'm with my girlfreind and some J-guy gives her a dirty look I need to ask that person or other Japanese people what they think about black guys with Japanese woman before I can tell my readers what I see and what I feel??? BTW also totally unrelated to this post!
I don't think so, Sir. I think I have been here long enough to tell what is going on, and I have enough Japanese friends colleagues, etc...and you can see I am an inquisitve guy who likes to get to the bottom of things, can't you??? Naturally, over the course of 8 years, i have gotten into conversations with Japanese people on any and all topics I write about. Naturally no one says "I hate to see black guys with japanese girls because..." that's just too honest. But the facial expression that lead me to that conclusion left little to the imagination, sir. Disgust is disgust. Distasteful is distastful. Maybe you dont like to hear such things because you would never do such a thing, but you are not typical, Sir, as I've said before. You think and write and research a topic that the vast majority of the people I've met since I've been living here are absolutely oblivious about. You are Windows 7, mhile most people are still using Windows 95 at best. And I'm sure you know this as well.

As for regurgitation,それはどうでしょうか?どうやって、確かめたのですか?
you asked. You want me to confirm that people are afraid of me??? What does that mean? Catch up to them when they flee and ask them are they afraid of me or make a survey asking Japanese are they, in general, afraid of foreigners and in particular black guys? Or do you mean speak to the people I know?
Naturally I haven't done either of the first two. The third I have. Some people say no, some people say until they met me they were, but now they aren't. No surprise there right? This is something I've covered in a number of posts on my blog, so that's why i said regurgitating. Anyway, I'm at work now, but I just wanted to take a few minutes to share some of my thoughts on this matter with you.
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 12:55:27
Locoさん

Thanks for the comment.

Here's an interesting article on Debito that answers all your questions



you claimed:

"And some people just know themselves well enough to know that they could never tolerate the stuff Debito addresses and tolerates"

I asked,

Could you be more specific?

Which one are you talking about ?


For example, gaijin only shop.

http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=829
Other people have done more nicely and quickly: it is hardly things that people could never address and tolerates.

As for gajin hanzai file,
Japan Probe did a good job though Debito sometimes talks if he did it.


http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/02/11/update-on-the-foreigner-crime-file-familymart-apologizes/

It is hardly things that people could never address and tolerates

Debito's members complained of the gaijin nose. Japan Probe addressed it.Debito didn't (while asked to help)


Debito talks about Japanese only hotel, but he did nothing but I called up the agency and addressed the issue.

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/ee8ded35ef40482cc8961b7213cc9118



You claimed Debito is a fighter.
I asked who he was fighting against?
And you answer is he, working, with Tony and some others, was once fighting against Yunohana ?

You claimed

" His methods may be questionable at times"



But you said you were not a regular reader,which leads me ask what methods you were referring to.


You claimed if his work has deterred people from coming to Japan, so what. Jaoan is certainly not for everyone

I asked if telling lies and fueling the hatred is okay to achieve the goal.

Do you really believe promoting posts saying Japan condone the murder of foreigners by its own citizens, revealing the name of the rape victim against her privacy, Don't do business in Japan lead to the equal treatment of equal treatment for foreign born citizens?


http://s02.megalodon.jp/2007-1124-1207-20/nofj16.googlepages.com/home
http://megalodon.jp/2008-0304-0849-14/www.debito.org/index.php/?p=1369
http://tepido.org/handbags-at-dawn/180/comment-page-1#comment-1247

Do you endorse such activism?




>
As for My darling is a foreigner i didn't see the movie nor read the books

But you said "he does ridiculous and funny stuff"

>
the title rubs me the wrong way

→ 
here you are giving a different reason.

>
Reducing people of many different cultures and backgrounds to the title "foreigner" achieves this and is reflective of the mindset I encounter regularly

So do you also say that you don't want to be reduced as African-American nor American ?
African American and Americans don not have the homogeneous culture, aren't they?
For instance, "This is loco-san from the U.S." Is that kimochi warui?

I for one would take it lightly, this is sora from Japan/from a foreign country.



>""Do foreigners drink green tea?" "You don't like Mcdonalds???But youre a foreigner??? How can that be?" Perhaps these books did make steps towards addressing these issues but the name kept me from discovering this."

Some people are still naive, but that's the way they learn about the customs and people from other cultures.


>the name kept me from discovering this. Kimoochi warui!

I feel the questions asked above are innocuous, maybe sometimes boring but I am tolerant and would never feel kimochiwarui.
I don't read these questions into the title.
I just guess the title somehow comes from 奥さまは魔女, Japanese title for "Bewitched"

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%A5%E3%81%95%E3%81%BE%E3%81%AF%E9%AD%94%E5%A5%B3_(%E3%83%86%E3%83%AC%E3%83%93%E3%83%89%E3%83%A9%E3%83%9E)

So I don't understand how it makes you sick, but so be it.

Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 12:55:40

>clearly in that post I am talking about the Japanese guys who do the behaviors that provoke the violent reaction Ie, pulling wallets from pockets, giving my girl a dirty look, etc


Well it was not clear, so I asked.
And clearly you said,
" Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me. ", which makes stark contrast with the statement by Meredith I quoted that "he was never conscious of his racial identity as he was in the US"


>
"do you come on my blog and say "please don't generalize about Japanese. We are not all polite and peaceful people.Some of us are just as rude and hate-filled as people anywhere else in the world"? Of course not

Apart from whether coming on your blog , when someone says "
Japanese people are really polite and peaceful people", I assume he does not know the Japanese people nor human beings in general.


" When you come on my blog and suggest otherwise it shows me that you are looking for a forum to make your point with all foreigners."


Poeple often generalize wrongly no?
In your country there are hate crimes that attack black people just because they are black because the attacker wrongly generalize the black people. Prejudice and st
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 13:02:34
Prejudice and stereotype are rampant and they are the term for it.

"I used to think of myself as that priest getting hosed down and the Black guys as the Space Monkeys, only they don’t know they are, or appear not to. They incite the fight with their antics, but by the time it’s over I feel like I started it."

Do you not expect some black guy's backlash?


>I wrote an especially neutral piece about why I am not like Debito and why I still believe that I am part of the change that is occurring in Japan, and your response is to tell me not to generalize about your people???

→My comment is about your post.
First It deals with your statements "I have no desire to integrate seamlessly into Japanese society. I don’t believe it’s possible anyway. It has been 400 years and America is still trying to get it together and perfect a union, so I don’ t expect much over here. "

Second it is about asking for your future writing not to generalize, judging from your past writings

For instance,

" While Japanese tend to stare at me when they believe I’m unaware of them, and upon my turning on them will do most anything to avert their eyes, that “courtesy” is not extended when I’m in the company of my Japanese girlfriend. The stare is not at me though. The stare is at her, so intense that they don’t even realize I’m watching them do it! Of course my girlfriend is unaware too, like some comedy of errors. She always seems to miss it. I used to go all out to get her to see how her people are looking at her, but I’ve given up.

The look varies from curiosity to envy to shock to disgust (if I’m reading the faces right). The Japanese women represent the curious and envious and shock, the Japanese men show shock too sometimes, but generally bring the disgust."

" Japanese tend to stare at me .....when I’m in the company of my Japanese girlfriend.The stare is at her....they don’t even realize I’m watching them"

It is hard to imagine people around you all look at your girlfriend and is that because they fear you?

But even your girlfriend is unaware?...... being stared at by people around her?

And the guys are shocked and generally disgusted???
Honestly, loco san, that is the part i find it hard to imagine.
Japanese people generally don't care who dates with who.
It might be true that some people show the curious look, that is all I can say.
For instance ,if someone is with a famous person, perhaps some people look at both of them with shock or admiration or envy.
I sometimes see a white person with a Japanese girl. But I didn't notice the stare.
As I said, I've seen the black guy with a Japanese woman. I didn't notice the stare with disgust.
(Though it is not so often I see a black man on the street in the first place.)

Maybe it is because I just didn't notice.

Okay here is James on Japan Probe talking about the foreigners with a Japanese woman.


"
Did they not like the sight of an Asian woman with a white guy? My girlfriend also noticed their stares and told me she wanted to leave, so we did. "

In his case, his girlfriend also notice their stare.

"I can’t say I’ve experienced anything remotely similar in Japan, aside from the occasional astonished stare from a small child who obviously hasn’t seen many foreigners before."
http://www.japanprobe.com/2006/08/21/back-from-shanghai/

He was talking about the experience at Shanghai.

>

Or do you mean speak to the people I know?
Naturally I haven't done either of the first two. The third I have. Some people say no, some people say until they met me they were,


Doesn't that mean some people you know were not afraid of you in the first place and others you know were afraid of you until they met?
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 13:05:22
If that is the case, is it not unreleasable to assume that lots of people are not afraid of you without knowing you in person since there were people who were not afraid of you in the first place. Youknowhutumsayin?


Another question.
Have you asked those who said they were afraid of you until they met you why they were afraid of you at first?
You face, your height, your color, the way you behave, the way you dress etc?
Loco (loco)
2010-12-09 14:45:29
Sora, thanks for responding, and this will be my last response to you on this subject. sorry in advance if it leaves you wanting but discussing this subject with you is kind of making me tense and nauseous and i don7t need this! You are obviously an intelligent person, but this topic is irksome for me as it is for you I'm sure, and nothing is being accomplished here, as far I can see. So i think we will simply have to agree to disagree.
You think Debito is a troublemaker but I think troublemakers have their place. Malcolm X and MLK were both considered trouble makers by the US during the Civil Rights movement in America. Now they are both considered heroes. (At least by me and many) Not to compare Debito to those two but upsetting the status quo is what they did, and not in polite and peaceful ways all the time, either. They weren't the first, and Debito won't be the last.
I will not debate Debito further...you clearly are prepared to argue everything I say about him, as you are everything I say about anything. You obviously don't like him and feel he has done nothing worthwhile, while many people will differ, myself included.
As for the "Darling gaijin" stuff, the fact you think such questions are innocuous is disturbing, The fact that you think that somehow people seeing this type of thing on screen will improve the situation out in the real world is optimistic to say the least. Un-realistic in my opinion. I mean, if movies can have a positive effect here then I don't see why positive portrayals of blacks aren't given as much weight as negative, here and everywhere else.
But, like i said we will will just have to agree to disagree.
Next, I'm sorry, who the hell is Meredith and what does she have to do with me? You lost me. You lose me a lot which is why I'm giving up this dialogue.
"Tend to" "In general" "Some" "Sometimes" "etc...are some of the words I use to moderate and limit my generalizations. I have other words. You disregard these words and attack any statement made. For the record, and in the simplest english I can say it, Japanese people do not behave badly all the time...and it's not all Japanese people that are doing these things. I really don't know how much clearer I can make it for you Sora. It's part of why I'm nauseous. The frustration of getting through to your obstinate mind that I am not your enemy. I am telling the truth about what I see every day. You should be thankful that I'm out there sharing this wealth of information that you clearly don't have access to, so that you won't be going around with any illusions about the capacity for anti-social and dehumanizing behavior your peopole are capable of. I mean, that is a rare gift. Savor it. Appreciate it. I'm the black man on the street giving you the straight dope you'll never see without my benefit. But I undersatnd, you have doubts about my authenticity. You think because I came from the US I must see racism in everything people from Japan do. Fine...then AGAIN we will have to agree to disagree.
Because my girl didn't see the looks, doesn't mean they don't happen. i know what I see. if you don't believe me I'm not sure what to tell you. If a Japanese person sees it then you believe it??? Oh,I get it. Sad, but I get it.
And I've said many times and i'll say it again: staring doesn't bother me. I've grown accustomed to it here. It's part of life here, like car horns in NY. Syouganai. What I don't like are dirty looks. I went to China and had the same exp as james and the stares were intense. Here the tendency is not to stare when I'm looking. Chinese don't care. Japanese do. UNLESS you are with your girl, then I've found that a GOOD NUMBER of Japanese men suddenly don't care about decorum, and will stare AT HER! Not me. And the fear that would have existed had i been alone is dissolved or removed by whatever feeling is accompanying the stare. Do you get it??
Geez, I know my writing isn't this unclear.
And all japanese are not afraid of me. Just enough to make it feel like the a good portion of Yokohama is running scared. But it definitely isn't everybody. I never said it was. Why do you feel this need to blow everything I say out of proportion? Anyway, I'm finished with this topic for now. Please don't ask any more questions for I won't be returning to answer them and I don't want to be rude(r) . At least not now. I have exhausted myself trying to respond to your obstinance and now I have to go de-stress with a smoke and a cup of coffee. Maybe a massage with a happy ending. (-;
Have a nice day!

loco (loco)
2010-12-09 14:50:45
The answer to your last question. The most popular answer is: because I am not japanese, followed by Japanese have a fear of black people because of what they see on movies and the news, and those rapes in Okinawa, and violence on the news, and the blacks pulling salarymen into clubs in seedy parts of town like Roppongi and Kabukicho, one girl said AIDS, another...several asked if I had a gun...etc...Why? This can't be news to you...ok now I'm done
Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 01:26:48
Loco さん
Thanks for responding

>this will be my last response to you on this subject
→Perhaps this will be my last response to you on this subject

>nothing is being accomplished here, as far I can see.

It is not two of us who are reading this, There are some people who gets deeper understanding and different perspective. That's important and that is an accomplishment.



You think Debito is a troublemaker but I think troublemakers have their place. Malcolm X and MLK were both considered trouble makers by the US during the Civil Rights movement in America.


→ So you are saying that exposing rape victim's name against her privacy and such will lead to the equal treatment for foreign born people--- I am surprised.

> many people will differ, myself included

And many people look at his activism with a grain of salt.
I wonder why someone who is not a regular reader of his blog, know little about activism are defending him so much after being shown the facts that are demeriting his activism.


>As for the "Darling gaijin" stuff, the fact you think such questions are innocuous is disturbing

It seems so many things are disturbing for you.

If "This is loco /my beloved husband from the U.S./ a foreign country disturbed you, probably your future wife should be very careful for words.

>I mean, if movies can have a positive effect here then I don't see why positive portrayals of blacks aren't given as much weight as negative, here and everywhere else.



As you must be aware, in the history of the film industry and television dramas, there have not been and there are still not as many positive portrayals of blacks as it should be . That does not mean the kind of the movies and manga like ダーリン  does not have positive effects.

I wonder why Loco san prefer to the activism of promoting posts saying "Japan condone the murder of foreigners by its own citizens" while title "my beloved husband is non-Japanese" rubs him the wrong way.
.




I'm sorry, who the hell is Meredith

→See the post above:I provided the link.
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/201f02874854b5e1f9dfeb32b905267a
FYI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Meredith



"Tend to" "In general" "Some" "Sometimes" "etc...are some of the words I use to moderate and limit my generalizations.

Let me me quote from your words.

"
"I used to think of myself as that priest getting hosed down and the Black guys as the Space Monkeys, only they don’t know they are, or appear not to. They incite the fight with their antics, but by the time it’s over I feel like I started it"

There is no "Tend to" "In general" "Some" "Sometimes"

Here is another one.

"" Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me. "

There is no "Tend to" "In general" "Some" "Sometimes"



You should be thankful that I'm out there sharing this wealth of information that you clearly don't have access to, so that you won't be going around with any illusions about the capacity for anti-social and dehumanizing behavior your peopole are capable of.


I know some people, Americans or Japanese, are capable of showing dehumanizing behavior.
I wonder if Loco san, from New YorK where "the opposite of observant is victimization, death, or missed opportunities to improve one's lot" did not know it and didn't know other people know it.
And I wonder if Loco san is also thankful that I am here sharing this wealth of information.



I am not your enemy


I am not your enemy either.



Because my girl didn't see the looks, doesn't mean they don't happen


Correct.


>then I've found that a GOOD NUMBER of Japanese men suddenly don't care about decorum, and will stare AT HER! Not me. And the fear that would have existed had i been alone is dissolved or removed by whatever feeling is accompanying the stare. Do you get it??


Sorry , all I can say at this point is that you thought so and that your girlfriend were not aware of it, because I haven't seen it at first hand and the other experiences I had about interracial couples does not prove your story.

>If a Japanese person sees it then you believe it??? Oh,I get it. Sad, but I get it.

Today I asked a few Japanese people if they would look at the partner with shock or disgust, they all said they doubt it. 

(If Japanese people say it then you don't believe it????Oh,I get, Sad, but I get it---forget it , this is not a logical response.)


all japanese are not afraid of me. Just enough to make it feel like the a good portion of Yokohama is running scared. But it definitely isn't everybody.

→ I wonder how many NUMBER of black man are just enough to look scary to conclude that a good portion of Tokyo Blacks are walking scaring.

>I don't want to be rude(r) . At least not now.

It looks like you are insinuating you might be rude later.
I am just trying to be logical.
Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 01:28:36
I don't care if you act rude unless you don't use violence.




>The most popular answer is: because I am not japanese, followed by Japanese have a fear of black people because of what they see on movies and the news, and those rapes in Okinawa, and violence on the news, and the blacks pulling salarymen into clubs in seedy parts of town like Roppongi and Kabukicho, one girl said AIDS, another...several asked if I had a gun


So if that is the case, they are wrongly drawing the conclusion that just because a GOOD NUMBER of black people they see and hear about them were violent, a good portion of black people, one of who happen to be you, are violent.
I feel like hearing the logic from someone.


Now they've found Loco san was different--he is nice. I wonder if they come to conclusion that he is Windows 7, while most black people are still using Windows 95 at best.
I feel like hearing the logic from someone.

In any case, it seems to be hard to change bias.


In conclusion,
I believe there are some people, Japanese or Americans, showing dehumanizing behavior.
In Japan it is highly probable people glance/stare more often at gaiin than they glance/stare at other Japanese.
There might be cases that they cower and/or flinch at the sight of the black people.
And since these behavior can be interpreted in several ways, it is frustrating.


The Toll of Subtle Racism “was that racism at work or am I just paranoid? Maybe I wasn’t really the best person for the job? Maybe it’s my problem and I’m seeing racism everywhere…” ― I would suggest that energy on all levels, emotional, physical and spiritual, is wasted in such unclear situations.
日本人に対する異様な視線と”黒人”に対する異様な視線


Loco san insists that "Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me. "
I suspect it is an overstatement. As for black people in general , I know people tend to look upon them as the unknown with fear and curiosity. How a Japanese person look at them differs from a person to a person but it is possible that there are people who got negative ideas about black people or a good portion of black people just as there are black people who got negative ideas about Japan and the Japanese or a good portion of the Japanese. There are no study I can find how many there are


Loco san insists that "when I’m in the company of my Japanese girlfriend" "The look varies from curiosity to envy to shock to disgust (if I’m reading the faces right). The Japanese women represent the curious and envious and shock, the Japanese men show shock too sometimes, but generally bring the disgust."

For the most part I doubt it; though, I admit that there are cases people glance/stare at them both.

Practically if black people's frustration is to such an extent that they are tempted to use violence, I think they should unite to speak up, to discuss with the Japanese in Japanese.
I am here to support it.
Loco (Loco)
2010-12-10 13:31:21
Sora-san, you are not helping by suggestingto your reader that if I can not provide proof of the behavior of many Japanese people towards me that it is probably not true, a lie or exxageration. You are missing out on a grand opportunity, as i said before. It is your loss and your readers' loss. If you find it hard to believe I understand, no one wants to here such horrible things ablut their own people. If you think i am the kind of person with nothing better to do than to fabricate stories of the trials and tribulation of living in Japan and not being Japanese, ok douzo. I can't stop you. I am rather observant. I miss little. I report it on my blog, the good and bad. I describe the behavior and then I give my interpretation of the behavior. Whether or not you agree with my interpretation of the behavior is your call. Whether are not you accept the behavior I describe is not, from my perspective, which is part of frustration with speaking to you. You seem to be suggesting that I'm not seeing what I'm seeing and describing. That's offensive. That's no way to speak to anyone, just because you have no proof and I have no proof that i saw it. You're free to refute the thinking behind the behavior: why that person ran, why that man removed his wallet from his pocket once he noticed me behind him, etc...I ask my Japanese friends such questions and their answers vary. Yours do not. You like to refer me to things that occur in other countries rather deal with the behavior in question in the country in question.
You like to draw comparisons between the US and Japan as an explanation. Overstating the obvious. You come from a position of inferiority unnecessarily. I do not see you or Japanese as inferior.
btw tend to and some and sometimes do not need to be in every sentence for it to be understood...only if you are looking to be offended will you be offended. You sound like what you seem to be accusing me of. The people under discussion are clearly stated before that paragraph. These would be the people performing these antics which are not all Japanese men. The subject of the post did not change. The subject was: "The assholes who’ve seen Loco unhinged" it's ridiculous to jump to conclusions when you're reading ability is not native level. You would be better off asking what i meant to be sure before you go getting all upset. Because you're responses from that point have been shaped and painted by that feeling of being classified in such a way. Unless you are an asshole who has seen my dark side you are not one of the Space Monkeys!
Also, btw, "In general" and "Generally" have the same meaning. Meaning "for the most part" and that is not an exxageration. And there are many more words which I use most often, English is replete with them. That's what "etc" means. You said in your conclusion "tend to" in Japanese tend to fear black people. It is just about the SAME meaning as "Generally fear me" Sir. You should learn your English before you use it or judge a native speaker based on his usage. This makes me wonder whether or not you are making similar errors across the internet as you read English books and blogs etc...and report your findings to your readers. You should double check or check with a native speaker. Until recently I would have been happy to help you out, but now I'm too busy with other things. Maybe next year if I have time I can help you with some of the more difficult things. Just let me know.
But, with your current attitude it seems like you are just trying not to understand me, and that's a turn off. disinclining me to help you out. I hate that shit.
Still, even after I said i wouldn't I replied because I'm kind of compulsive...sometimes LOL.
If the behavior i discribe I see is not fear then I will admit I'm wrong. But not about the amount of people who have this reaction. If I'm wrong I'll modify my assessment as such: Japanese who know me love me and those who don't "GENERALLY" engage in behaviors that can easily be mistaken for someone in fear of for their lives, their property, their health or experiencing a level of discomfort that borders on psychotic.
How's that?
I don't know why they behave this way. I could be mistaken. It could be that they are simply have to go to the bathroom, or were robbed earlier that day, or don't want me to catch their cold, or any of a number of other possibilities.
loco (loco)
2010-12-10 13:31:38
"As for black people IN GENERAL, I know people TEND TO look upon them as the unknown with fear and curiosity."
You should have stopped right there. Why add that the opposite is true to? Because you wnat to convey to your readers that people are people and people black and Japanese look on unknown with fear and curiosity?

Ok, but japanese, or rather Asians, are not the unknown at least to most african americans. So I don't know if that is a good comparisons in this situation. I'd never been to Japan before but I'd known and seen people of Asian descent before, I'd read books about Asi
loco (loco)
2010-12-10 13:41:25
Asians, I'd seen movies about them as well...So I came here with curiosity, sure, but ZERO fear. Curiosity is not even a concern of mine. As I've told you before. I don't care about staring out of curiosity. It is like getting angry at sand when you're at the beach, in Japan.

Anyway, that weakened your conclusion a little.
PS: Debito is not my hero. If he made some mistakes, it happens. MLK slept with other women and Kalcolm X said that JFK's assassination was "chickens coming home to roost" Nobody's perfect, is my point. (Not that Debito is in a class with them) Geez. I don't like him outing a rape victim if that's what happened.
Yes, my future wife had better be careful indeed. This is my husband, hsi name is Loco" is enough.
If the person asks any questions about me she's free to answer them but that nationality or l"lack of nationality" as part of the introduction stuff is not my way! But it's the Japanese way, I know. She'd learn before I took her hand in matrimony anyway.

Your hate for Debito has blinded you. I understand that, but don't paint me with the same brush because i approve of some of the things he's done. I don't know everything he has done no more than I know everything you've done. All I know is what I've read of your work and what you've written on my blog. I don't research you and haven't researched Debito either. You have! So you are more informed. As I am more informed about Japanese behavior IN GENERAL towards black people than you are. I live it!
Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 19:18:11
Loco san

Welcome back.
> Sora-san, you are not helping by suggestingto your reader that if I can not provide proof of the behavior of many Japanese people towards me that it is probably not true, a lie or exxageration.
→Isn't it true that you yourself change a your view a little bit?

Loco
""Those that know me love me, those that don't generally fear me. "
Sora

"
Doesn't that mean some people you know were not afraid of you in the first place and others you know were afraid of you until they met?
Unknown (空)
2010-12-09 13:05:22
If that is the case, is it not unreleasable to assume that lots of people are not afraid of you without knowing you in person since there were people who were not afraid of you in the first place. Youknowhutumsayin?"
Loco
"
all japanese are not afraid of me. Just enough to make it feel like the a good portion of Yokohama is running scared."

それに様々な視点を読者に与えることに関して不満をお持ちのようなところがなかなか理解しにくいところです。読者は私の味方とは限らないわけで、議論を通じて、ロコさんがやはり正しい、と思われるかたもおられるでしょう。



You are missing out on a grand opportunity, as i said before. It is your loss and your readers' loss. If you find it hard to believe I understand, no one wants to here such horrible things ablut their own people.

→いままでの議論を踏まえて、どうお応えしていいのかわかりませんね。




If you think i am the kind of person with nothing better to do than to fabricate stories of the trials and tribulation of living in Japan and not being Japanese, ok douzo. I can't stop you.


いやそうは思っていません。異文化で暮らすというのはたいへんなことです。また、悔しい経験もあろうとは思います。それを否定するつもりはありません。

I am rather observant. I miss little. I report it on my blog, the good and bad. I describe the behavior and then I give my interpretation of the behavior. Whether or not you agree with my interpretation of the behavior is your call. Whether are not you accept the behavior I describe is not, from my perspective, which is part of frustration with speaking to you.

→あったことを解釈する。ところが、その解釈が正解とは限らないわけですね。
(さらに、いわゆる知覚というものも解釈に影響されることも注意してください。)



You seem to be suggesting that I'm not seeing what I'm seeing and describing.

そうでしょうか?

>That's offensive.

→というより、解釈や理論に疑問を呈されたことがOffensiveだということではないでしょうか?


That's no way to speak to anyone, just because you have no proof and I have no proof that i saw it. You're free to refute the thinking behind the behavior: why that person ran, why that man removed his wallet from his pocket once he noticed me behind him, etc...

→これについてはすでに書きました。

ロコさんの解釈を含めていろいろありえる。

道行く”黒人”への視線
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/9bd46aecee493507a4bbfdfddcc5025d
を参考にしてください。



I ask my Japanese friends such questions and their answers vary. Yours do not. You like to refer me to things that occur in other countries rather deal with the behavior in question in the country in question.


上記 投稿を参考にしてください。


You like to draw comparisons between the US and Japan as an explanation. Overstating the obvious. You come from a position of inferiority unnecessarily. I do not see you or Japanese as inferior.

→そうでしょうか?


btw tend to and some and sometimes do not need to be in every sentence for it to be understood...only if you are looking to be offended will you be offended. You sound like what you seem to be accusing me of. The people under discussion are clearly stated before that paragraph. These would be the people performing these antics which are not all Japanese men. The subject of the post did not change. The subject was: "The assholes who’ve seen Loco unhinged" it's ridiculous to jump to conclusions when you're reading ability is not native level.


そこが明確ではなかった。だからこそ、

You sometimes sounds like nobody except your students in Japan see humans as humans.”

と書いたわけです。

そして、こちらからの要望をなるべくロコさんを追い詰めないように、

”There is something to ask from a grumpy Japanese ojisan so that he may not get grumpier in reading your posts. Just read it half-heartedly and don't feel pressured.”
”Too demanding? maybe.Just let it go in one ear and out.”

と工夫して書いたつもりですがうまくいかなかったようですね。



You would be better off asking what i meant to be sure before you go getting all upset.

とくにupsetしているとは思いませんが、しかし、だからこそ、ここで問答しているわけです。


Because you're responses from that point have been shaped and painted by that feeling of being classified in such a way. Unless you are an asshole who has seen my dark side you are not one of the Space Monkeys!

→ここらへんはよくわかりません

Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 19:20:17

Also, btw, "In general" and "Generally" have the same meaning. Meaning "for the most part" and that is not an exxageration. And there are many more words which I use most often, English is replete with them. That's what "etc" means. You said in your conclusion "tend to" in Japanese tend to fear black people. It is just about the SAME meaning as "Generally fear me" Sir.


You quoted me wrong.

What I said in conclusion was

"As for black people in general , I know people tend to look upon them as the unknown with fear and curiosity. "


You should learn your English before you use it or judge a native speaker based on his usage.

→どこが間違っていましたか?

ではネーティブのお聞きします。
ロコさんは、

no one wants to here such horrible things ablut their own people.

と書いていますが、これって、

no one wants to HEAR such horrible things ABOUT their own PEOPLE

ということでしょうか?



This makes me wonder whether or not you are making similar errors across the internet as you read English books and blogs etc...and report your findings to your readers.

随分と飛躍した論理ですね。
まず、前提が正しいかどうかわからない。もっとも、批判や訂正はいつも歓迎しています。


You should double check or check with a native speaker.

Just as you should double check or check your experience with the Japanese?

ネーティブの人からの反応も歓迎です。これは常日頃言っていることです。書いたことについても納得のいく説明があれば訂正します。反対意見も歓迎なわけです。
だからこそ、違法でない限り、また、明かなスパムメールでない限り、ロコさんや有道氏のようにコメントは拒まない。


Until recently I would have been happy to help you out, but now I'm too busy with other things. Maybe next year if I have time I can help you with some of the more difficult things. Just let me know.


ありがとうございます。


But, with your current attitude it seems like you are just trying not to understand me,


理解はしようとしているわけです。
当ブログでロコ あるいは Locoをブログ内検索していただければ、ロコさんの記事については、かなり好意的に扱っていると思うのですが。


”I understand it is frustrating enough and I don't want to make light of it, getting angry and furious is justified”

ただ、言っていることのすべてに同意できるわけではない。
私が、同意しなかったことについて、ロコさんはこだわっている。


> and that's a turn off. disinclining me to help you out. I hate that shit.

また、手伝う、手伝わないは個人の自由ですから、私には気にしない



Still, even after I said i wouldn't I replied because I'm kind of compulsive...sometimes LOL.

人間って多かれ少なかれ、そんなふうなときがあります。


If the behavior i discribe I see is not fear then I will admit I'm wrong. But not about the amount of people who have this reaction. If I'm wrong I'll modify my assessment as such: Japanese who know me love me and those who don't "GENERALLY" engage in behaviors that can easily be mistaken for someone in fear of for their lives, their property, their health or experiencing a level of discomfort that borders on psychotic.
How's that?

those who don't ,I FEEL, "GENERALLY" engage in behaviors that can easily be mistaken for someone in fear of for their lives, their property, their health or experiencing a level of discomfort that borders on psychotic.
How's that?


I don't know why they behave this way. I could be mistaken. It could be that they are simply have to go to the bathroom, or were robbed earlier that day, or don't want me to catch their cold, or any of a number of other possibilities.

 そういったいろんな解釈がありえるために大きなストレスになることは理解します。


"As for black people IN GENERAL, I know people TEND TO look upon them as the unknown with fear and curiosity."
You should have stopped right there. Why add that the opposite is true to? Because you wnat to convey to your readers that people are people and people black and Japanese look on unknown with fear and curiosity?


まさしくその通りです。


Ok, but japanese, or rather Asians, are not the unknown at least to most african americans. So I don't know if that is a good comparisons in this situation. I'd never been to Japan before but I'd known and seen people of Asian descent before, I'd read books about Asians, I'd seen movies about them as well..

ある人や国民にとってのthe Unknown はその人によって、また、国民によって異なります。
報道など読んでいますと、アメリカ人にとっては現在の顕著なthe unknown は多分 ムスリムかあるいはラティーノではないでしょうか?

例えば、米国で”黒人”とラティーノ、あるいは韓国人の対立が報道されることありました。あれも未知のものから、あるきっかけで不信感に発展してしまった場合ではないでしょうか?

また、例えば、日本人について米国の”黒人”のかたがどう思っているか、それもやはりひとそれぞれでしょう。好意的な人から憎しみを持っている人もいる。 
Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 19:20:54
”黒人”による日本人を狙ったヘイトクライムも報道されている。



.So I came here with curiosity, sure, but ZERO fear.

未知のものに対する態度について多少誤解がある。
未知のものに対する態度というのはたいてい好奇心と不安が入り交じったものではないでしょうか?そして、例えば、テロ事件があるまえに、ムスリムについて今のような不安や恐怖心をもっていたか、というと、そうではない。しかし、ああした事件があると、不安が顕在化し、あたかもmost Muslim or good portion of Muslim が敵意をもっているかのように感じられる人がでてくる。
例えば、アメリカ人について好意的だった人が、一部のアメリカ人にいじめられた経験、あるいはいじめられたと思った経験からgood portion of American が自分に敵意を持っていると思いこむこともありえる。

So for instance, a Japanese who first consider Americans favorably might mistakenly come to conclude that most or a good portion of Americans are hostile to him/her or the Japanese people because some American bullied him or because he felt he was bullied by some Americans.

Ring a bell?


Anyway, that weakened your conclusion a little.


以上の理由で、ロコさんの提示される議論によって結論部分が必ずしも弱まるとは思いません。もっとも、他の有力の理由があれば、別ですが。

PS: Debito is not my hero. If he made some mistakes, it happens. MLK slept with other women and Kalcolm X said that JFK's assassination was "chickens coming home to roost" Nobody's perfect, is my point. (Not that Debito is in a class with them) Geez. I don't like him outing a rape victim if that's what happened.

その点は了解しました。

Yes, my future wife had better be careful indeed. This is my husband, hsi name is Loco" is enough.

 将来の奥様については、これは個人間の自由ですから、奥様がそれで納得すれば、それでいいとは思います。


If the person asks any questions about me she's free to answer them but that nationality or l"lack of nationality" as part of the introduction stuff is not my way! But it's the Japanese way, I know. She'd learn before I took her hand in matrimony anyway.

Your hate for Debito has blinded you.

私は、有道氏を憎んではいない。有道ブログの手法を批判しているだけです。
場合によっては、当ブログで協力もしている。むこうが拒絶しているだけです。


I understand that, but don't paint me with the same brush because i approve of some of the things he's done. I don't know everything he has done no more than I know everything you've done. All I know is what I've read of your work and what you've written on my blog. I don't research you and haven't researched Debito either. You have! So you are more informed.

→なるほど。
それにしては、有道氏とトニー氏に対する評価が見事に違ったことに驚いているひとは多いと思います。


As I am more informed about Japanese behavior IN GENERAL towards black people than you are. I live it!

これはどうでしょうか?
正確には、

I am more informed about Japanese behavior I met IN GENERAL towards me than you are.

ということではないでしょうか?

And still, that does not necessarily means you interpretation is right just as my interpretation of Debito's activism is not necessarily right just because I am more informed.

要するに、ロコさんが有道氏に関する主張を裏付ける証拠を提出していただければよかった。ところが、ロコさんはそれをなさらずに結論に固執していた、ということではないでしょうか?

以前から言っていますけど、私は反対意見は歓迎します。


Unknown (空)
2010-12-10 19:37:00
それと、自分の経験を直に見てもらいたい、ということでしたら、どうかご連絡下さい。
日にちを調整しましょう。

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