The Truth behind the experience of Liberation or No-Self, By Nick Roach, ニック・ローチによって - 01
解放または無自己の経験の背後にある真実、
ニック・ローチによって、
How to become Enlightened , The Truth behind the experience of Liberation or No-Self, By Nick Roach,
No-Self (the stage beyond God-Realisation - Liberation)
(This page was previously entitled No-Self, as above, but I later decided I preferred the term 'Liberation'. The reasons for this are given on the Diary Page)
There have been two questions which have occasionally occurred to me during the last 7 years since God-Realisation (or Self-Realisation) happened here:
1) Why do people keep claiming ‘There is nobody here’ – when, to me, there clearly is, even in God-Realisation?
2) Why have I continued to experience (apparently) emotional stress, long into God-Realisation?
These two questions have recently been answered, and I would like to share with you what I have learned...
(I have also begun a little diary of events that could be relevant and will add to the list as events unfold. This was situated at the bottom of this page, but now has a page dedicated to the unfolding experiences: Diary-after Enlightenment)
I had assumed that the teaching that there is nobody here (in its truest sense - once the Truth of this existence has been fully realised) was simply a misinterpretation of one of the insights; for there has been no doubt, whatever 'I' am, that 'I' am still 'here'. Sure, I have realised there is one Being here, and that this one Being is my own being, but realising this did not make 'me' disappear. I simply became 'bigger' than I thought I was (the energy behind everything). But life went on.
Also, I had also assumed that the teachings that describe everything as continuous peace in this state must be due to the environment the teachers in question live(d) in - invariably this would be some eastern country, in the sunshine, with very little else to do but enjoy 'being'. I have had no doubt that I too could teach about the peace, if I lived there, instead of having a 'real' job working for a busy local authority in the UK. In addition, life has seemingly thrown situation after situation at me, and daily living has been far from easy - ever. I have just hoped there was some reason or benefit to it, and more-so for an end.
As I write this (near the end of March 2011), it has been about two weeks since I turned to Sally, whilst getting ready to leave our home to go to work, and out of the blue said "I feel like I have had enough. I have just had enough!".
I did not know that was my turning point...
At around the same time, and it could have been the same day, I received an email from a visitor to this site who I had been corresponding with for a few weeks. We had exchanged a lot of information during the time and this latest email included the words "I think that Bernadette Roberts may be at a more 'advanced' state than yourself currently:
http://www.spiritualteachers.org/b_roberts_interview.htm"
I don't tend to read works by other teachers. Their teachings are either the same as what I say, in which case there is nothing to learn. Or they say something different, in which case their teachings are contrary and often over-complicated (or just coming from a different place)...
Anyway, I wanted to be open, to be able to explain away the apparent superior position; or, better still, learn something new. But I could not see what could be more 'advanced' than God-Realisation. So, I read the interview on the page linked to above.
At the time I was amazed. It hit a core with me, so perfectly timed and executed that suddenly I knew this was it. There was something here that I had not heard of, or at least had not appreciated before. I had to find out more...
Bernadette's path is quite different from my own. She describes coming from a Catholic / Christian background, and her spiritual journey being one of contemplation, prayer and reading. Whereas my own has been simply fighting to remain conscious and 'do the right thing' in the face of continuing adversity; all the time longing for an end to the inner effort and struggling.
However, Bernadette describes entering a new state some 20 years after entering (what she terms) God-Union - It was as if her 'centre' had gone...
She says, at the time, she looked everywhere for some reference to explain what this was. Surely someone else must have been here before? Eventually she found one line in the Buddhist teaching:
"Initially, I gave up looking for this experience in the Buddhist literature. Four years later, however, I came across two lines attributed to Buddha describing his enlightenment experience. Referring to self as a house, he said, "All thy rafters are broken now, the ridgepole is destroyed." And there it was - the disappearance of the center, the ridgepole; without it, there can be no house, no self. When I read these lines, it was as if an arrow launched at the beginning of time had suddenly hit a bulls-eye. It was a remarkable find."
She goes on to say that the confusion occurs because teachings (both traditional and current) merge the two states together, God-Union and No-Self, when they are very different; as I was soon to learn...
I knew this was my next step. I felt I was so close. But how does one make their self, their centre disappear?
That night, in bed, I was given a glimpse of the experience whereby the centre did seem to evaporate, right 'in front of my eyes' (as the saying goes), and it was gone. Then, a moment later it was back, but now at least I knew what I was looking for...
I spent a couple of days doing what I have always done in these situations: holding onto a sensation within (in this case, the sense of a centre) so as to dissolve it, but it was not working. As I held onto it, there it remained. I felt I needed a new way of dealing with this.
It then occurred to me, if I let go of the centre and focused outside of myself, on the world around me, what would happen? I was already Self/God-Realised so I could not lose that. So, I tried it, and the moment I did so the centre was gone. There was only this space looking 'out' at the objects of the world - no centre; no 'self'!
That was a few days ago now, and this has continued to be the experience here. It's a little strange and still new, but I will try to explain it more in my own words below:
The Experience of No-Self
First, I am still 'Me'. By that I mean, to everyone who knows me, nothing has changed - I don't have a halo, or wear sandals. And, although internally something has indeed changed, it requires a little looking to confirm what exactly.
The slightly ambiguous aspect is the lack of a centre. I say 'ambiguous' because, even though it has only been a matter of days, I cannot, even now, remember what the centre was like. I only remember thinking that I had one, and one evening noticing it had gone. (In hindsight I can just about recall that the centre had been my solid foundation since God-Realisation occurred here. Where, no matter what happened, or how difficult life seemed to become, this impenetrable core held steady). But now there is no centre here, within this space of awareness. There is only 'this', the being behind what I call 'me', looking out, but nevertheless continuing to experience the external world just as before.
Also, while I see objects around me, I have noticed that it is as if the space between 'me' and the objects is actually solid. There is a sense that the 'empty space' is energetically 'present' and full.
Second, and perhaps the biggest change, is the 'peace', but I would like to qualify this further (whilst acknowledging entirely that as I write this it is still early days. No doubt there will be more to say later)...
Over the last couple of days I have been considering how I will write this; what I will say and how best to describe it. The following analogy occurred to me as being perhaps quite a good way to describe the entire process:
The Reluctant Passenger
Initially, when I was struggling, long before I knew anything about the (so-called) spiritual life, I was like a reluctant passenger in the backseat of a car. The car was not going where I wanted it to go, the driver would not listen to me, and no amount of shouting, screaming, wailing and whining would seem to make the slightest difference. It was frustrating, terrifying, shocking, and finally, full of desperation, I began to give up and wanted to know what was going on. I suggest this is the start of the (conscious) spiritual life...
Still in the backseat, I try to stay more aware and in control of my actions and reactions, and more aware of the car, of the driver, and where we seem to be going. It is as if I am possessed and have little control over what I am feeling but, bit by bit, my efforts are rewarded with glimpses into what is really going on. I begin to see that I am actually the one driving the car. Then, one day, I find I am no longer sitting in the backseat, struggling, shouting, but in the front, holding the steering wheel, driving the car. Thank God!
But, what is this? I still hear the wailing and the crying from the backseat. Sure, it is no longer 'me', but whatever it is, the creature in the backseat is still most unhappy and demands that I listen to it and that I take it where it wants to go!
I drive on, following the signs and the road, ignoring my reluctant passenger, and apparently knowing where to drive but with no real knowledge of where we are going - of the final destination. I wonder what will make the creature go away, as it is making the driving experience most unpleasant. I could handle the driving, the queuing, getting in the right lane, avoiding the road-hog cutting me up, without incident, if only the creature would just shut up and let me drive. Every so often I get some respite, as the creature seems to have either fallen asleep or has actually found a part of the journey quite enjoyable. But I am always aware that it's not far away, and soon it returns to its deranged state, and lets me know it.
And of course the creature doesn't have a choice. Occasionally I think back and remember what it was like to be there, trapped, imprisoned against my will, consumed with fear and no-one telling me where we are going or what they want with me. But now, to me, it's just a nuisance!
To me, this is God-Realisation.
Suddenly, having been driving around for quite sometime, I notice something has changed. The creature in the backseat seems to have been quiet for longer than usual. Has it gone? Is it dead? In truth, I don't know. All I know is the backseat is quiet and all is well. I can get on with driving and enjoying the journey...
...Ah, that's better... quickly our little friend is forgotten. With no sense of a passenger, this quiet becomes the norm, the ordinary, as if this is how things should be. Just me and the car, taking the road where it leads...
During the first couple of days I asked internally:
1) Do I have a Self?’
2) Where is my centre?
This is what I wrote:
The answer to the first is that I do not know for sure. I think the Self is still here, but it is now everything. It is as if it is aligned with what is, so cannot be experienced as is no longer separate or contrary to what is. Whether this is the same as No-Self, at this point I cannot guarantee, but it is only a few days into the process.
With regards to the second question, if I allow my sight to focus on a particular object, my centre would seem to be the middle point between what is doing the looking and the object being looked at. No longer is my centre in the body.
It is a bit like watching a movie in the first person, and therefore self-consideration is minimal as it is not ‘me’. 'I' (whatever ‘I’ am) have no reality here. There is just ‘this’ being experienced, but I have not changed ‘who’ I am. I am just not concerned about what is happening to this body or where I am right now.
I also noticed a series of coincidences 'helping' make the physical journey during those few days much more pleasant. As if offering some sort of external indication that all was well and as it should be.
The Final Journey
I have called this section 'The Final Journey' because it seems as good a name as any, but it is really still mostly speculative to me.
Bernadette describes this stage (which has been termed 'No-Self') as there being nothing more for the Self to learn. Hence its absence. Whether or not it has really gone, or whether it has just given up and is 'going with the flow' I do not know, but the result is the same: No more 'self-consideration'. All is quiet.
She describes a later level where the mind no longer focuses on specific objects - a state she has termed 'No-Where'. I cannot comment further on this, except to say that my own insights (in our book Essays in Truth) describe how the need for the dream of existence will eventually be lived out, and the dream will evaporate. But I am not in a hurry for this to happen. Just let me drive around for a while and see the sights, without my little gremlin in the backseat screaming at me.
Self-Avoidance / Self-Denial
I wanted to touch on something here briefly: The teaching of there being 'Nobody Here!'.
I have to say that I cannot see how it is useful to deny the existence of the self in one's attempt to go beyond it (a point Bernadette Roberts also states repeatedly). It may only be my own path, but the realising of God (for want of a better term) was an important step in the journey. Taking the car analogy further, I do not see how can one hope to have the 'self' that is screaming in the backseat disappear until they have first realised that they are not it? (As I see it) Simply repeating 'There is nobody here!' is delusional, and may serve only to prolong the time spent in the hypothetical backseat. In fact, it could be said that it is the creature itself that has adopted the mantra, hoping in vain that if it repeats it enough, one day it will come true - it will disappear. And of course, one day it will be true, but only after it accepts that it does exist and begins to confront the situation with presence and intelligence. So, I suggest self-denial or self-avoidance should not to be confused with the experience of No-Self, and furthermore are probably not the best means by which to realise it.
As I teach it, the path is first to see, and then to realise, that you are not the self (the emotional monster). You are the space within and behind what you thought was you. Here you find the knowledge that everything comes from this space, and in this you are alone, but complete. Whatever 'you' are, this is all that is, this space that you call 'I'.
Eventually, when you have lived enough in this state, 'No-Self' will come looking for you. There is nowhere to hide. :o)
Thank you
続きます。
The Truth behind the experience of Liberation or No-Self, By Nick Roach, ニック・ローチによって - 02
2013-06-21 12:15:56 | 話題 (opinion)
解放または無自己の経験の背後にある真実、
ニック・ローチによって、
How to become Enlightened , The Truth behind the experience of Liberation or No-Self, By Nick Roach,
No-Self (the stage beyond God-Realisation - Liberation)
(This page was previously entitled No-Self, as above, but I later decided I preferred the term 'Liberation'. The reasons for this are given on the Diary Page)
There have been two questions which have occasionally occurred to me during the last 7 years since God-Realisation (or Self-Realisation) happened here:
1) Why do people keep claiming ‘There is nobody here’ – when, to me, there clearly is, even in God-Realisation?
2) Why have I continued to experience (apparently) emotional stress, long into God-Realisation?
These two questions have recently been answered, and I would like to share with you what I have learned...
(I have also begun a little diary of events that could be relevant and will add to the list as events unfold. This was situated at the bottom of this page, but now has a page dedicated to the unfolding experiences: Diary-after Enlightenment)
I had assumed that the teaching that there is nobody here (in its truest sense - once the Truth of this existence has been fully realised) was simply a misinterpretation of one of the insights; for there has been no doubt, whatever 'I' am, that 'I' am still 'here'. Sure, I have realised there is one Being here, and that this one Being is my own being, but realising this did not make 'me' disappear. I simply became 'bigger' than I thought I was (the energy behind everything). But life went on.
Also, I had also assumed that the teachings that describe everything as continuous peace in this state must be due to the environment the teachers in question live(d) in - invariably this would be some eastern country, in the sunshine, with very little else to do but enjoy 'being'. I have had no doubt that I too could teach about the peace, if I lived there, instead of having a 'real' job working for a busy local authority in the UK. In addition, life has seemingly thrown situation after situation at me, and daily living has been far from easy - ever. I have just hoped there was some reason or benefit to it, and more-so for an end.
As I write this (near the end of March 2011), it has been about two weeks since I turned to Sally, whilst getting ready to leave our home to go to work, and out of the blue said "I feel like I have had enough. I have just had enough!".
I did not know that was my turning point...
At around the same time, and it could have been the same day, I received an email from a visitor to this site who I had been corresponding with for a few weeks. We had exchanged a lot of information during the time and this latest email included the words "I think that Bernadette Roberts may be at a more 'advanced' state than yourself currently:
http://www.spiritualteachers.org/b_roberts_interview.htm"
I don't tend to read works by other teachers. Their teachings are either the same as what I say, in which case there is nothing to learn. Or they say something different, in which case their teachings are contrary and often over-complicated (or just coming from a different place)...
Anyway, I wanted to be open, to be able to explain away the apparent superior position; or, better still, learn something new. But I could not see what could be more 'advanced' than God-Realisation. So, I read the interview on the page linked to above.
At the time I was amazed. It hit a core with me, so perfectly timed and executed that suddenly I knew this was it. There was something here that I had not heard of, or at least had not appreciated before. I had to find out more...
Bernadette's path is quite different from my own. She describes coming from a Catholic / Christian background, and her spiritual journey being one of contemplation, prayer and reading. Whereas my own has been simply fighting to remain conscious and 'do the right thing' in the face of continuing adversity; all the time longing for an end to the inner effort and struggling.
However, Bernadette describes entering a new state some 20 years after entering (what she terms) God-Union - It was as if her 'centre' had gone...
She says, at the time, she looked everywhere for some reference to explain what this was. Surely someone else must have been here before? Eventually she found one line in the Buddhist teaching:
"Initially, I gave up looking for this experience in the Buddhist literature. Four years later, however, I came across two lines attributed to Buddha describing his enlightenment experience. Referring to self as a house, he said, "All thy rafters are broken now, the ridgepole is destroyed." And there it was - the disappearance of the center, the ridgepole; without it, there can be no house, no self. When I read these lines, it was as if an arrow launched at the beginning of time had suddenly hit a bulls-eye. It was a remarkable find."
She goes on to say that the confusion occurs because teachings (both traditional and current) merge the two states together, God-Union and No-Self, when they are very different; as I was soon to learn...
I knew this was my next step. I felt I was so close. But how does one make their self, their centre disappear?
That night, in bed, I was given a glimpse of the experience whereby the centre did seem to evaporate, right 'in front of my eyes' (as the saying goes), and it was gone. Then, a moment later it was back, but now at least I knew what I was looking for...
I spent a couple of days doing what I have always done in these situations: holding onto a sensation within (in this case, the sense of a centre) so as to dissolve it, but it was not working. As I held onto it, there it remained. I felt I needed a new way of dealing with this.
It then occurred to me, if I let go of the centre and focused outside of myself, on the world around me, what would happen? I was already Self/God-Realised so I could not lose that. So, I tried it, and the moment I did so the centre was gone. There was only this space looking 'out' at the objects of the world - no centre; no 'self'!
That was a few days ago now, and this has continued to be the experience here. It's a little strange and still new, but I will try to explain it more in my own words below:
The Experience of No-Self
First, I am still 'Me'. By that I mean, to everyone who knows me, nothing has changed - I don't have a halo, or wear sandals. And, although internally something has indeed changed, it requires a little looking to confirm what exactly.
The slightly ambiguous aspect is the lack of a centre. I say 'ambiguous' because, even though it has only been a matter of days, I cannot, even now, remember what the centre was like. I only remember thinking that I had one, and one evening noticing it had gone. (In hindsight I can just about recall that the centre had been my solid foundation since God-Realisation occurred here. Where, no matter what happened, or how difficult life seemed to become, this impenetrable core held steady). But now there is no centre here, within this space of awareness. There is only 'this', the being behind what I call 'me', looking out, but nevertheless continuing to experience the external world just as before.
Also, while I see objects around me, I have noticed that it is as if the space between 'me' and the objects is actually solid. There is a sense that the 'empty space' is energetically 'present' and full.
Second, and perhaps the biggest change, is the 'peace', but I would like to qualify this further (whilst acknowledging entirely that as I write this it is still early days. No doubt there will be more to say later)...
Over the last couple of days I have been considering how I will write this; what I will say and how best to describe it. The following analogy occurred to me as being perhaps quite a good way to describe the entire process:
The Reluctant Passenger
Initially, when I was struggling, long before I knew anything about the (so-called) spiritual life, I was like a reluctant passenger in the backseat of a car. The car was not going where I wanted it to go, the driver would not listen to me, and no amount of shouting, screaming, wailing and whining would seem to make the slightest difference. It was frustrating, terrifying, shocking, and finally, full of desperation, I began to give up and wanted to know what was going on. I suggest this is the start of the (conscious) spiritual life...
Still in the backseat, I try to stay more aware and in control of my actions and reactions, and more aware of the car, of the driver, and where we seem to be going. It is as if I am possessed and have little control over what I am feeling but, bit by bit, my efforts are rewarded with glimpses into what is really going on. I begin to see that I am actually the one driving the car. Then, one day, I find I am no longer sitting in the backseat, struggling, shouting, but in the front, holding the steering wheel, driving the car. Thank God!
But, what is this? I still hear the wailing and the crying from the backseat. Sure, it is no longer 'me', but whatever it is, the creature in the backseat is still most unhappy and demands that I listen to it and that I take it where it wants to go!
I drive on, following the signs and the road, ignoring my reluctant passenger, and apparently knowing where to drive but with no real knowledge of where we are going - of the final destination. I wonder what will make the creature go away, as it is making the driving experience most unpleasant. I could handle the driving, the queuing, getting in the right lane, avoiding the road-hog cutting me up, without incident, if only the creature would just shut up and let me drive. Every so often I get some respite, as the creature seems to have either fallen asleep or has actually found a part of the journey quite enjoyable. But I am always aware that it's not far away, and soon it returns to its deranged state, and lets me know it.
And of course the creature doesn't have a choice. Occasionally I think back and remember what it was like to be there, trapped, imprisoned against my will, consumed with fear and no-one telling me where we are going or what they want with me. But now, to me, it's just a nuisance!
To me, this is God-Realisation.
Suddenly, having been driving around for quite sometime, I notice something has changed. The creature in the backseat seems to have been quiet for longer than usual. Has it gone? Is it dead? In truth, I don't know. All I know is the backseat is quiet and all is well. I can get on with driving and enjoying the journey...
...Ah, that's better... quickly our little friend is forgotten. With no sense of a passenger, this quiet becomes the norm, the ordinary, as if this is how things should be. Just me and the car, taking the road where it leads...
During the first couple of days I asked internally:
1) Do I have a Self?’
2) Where is my centre?
This is what I wrote:
The answer to the first is that I do not know for sure. I think the Self is still here, but it is now everything. It is as if it is aligned with what is, so cannot be experienced as is no longer separate or contrary to what is. Whether this is the same as No-Self, at this point I cannot guarantee, but it is only a few days into the process.
With regards to the second question, if I allow my sight to focus on a particular object, my centre would seem to be the middle point between what is doing the looking and the object being looked at. No longer is my centre in the body.
It is a bit like watching a movie in the first person, and therefore self-consideration is minimal as it is not ‘me’. 'I' (whatever ‘I’ am) have no reality here. There is just ‘this’ being experienced, but I have not changed ‘who’ I am. I am just not concerned about what is happening to this body or where I am right now.
I also noticed a series of coincidences 'helping' make the physical journey during those few days much more pleasant. As if offering some sort of external indication that all was well and as it should be.
The Final Journey
I have called this section 'The Final Journey' because it seems as good a name as any, but it is really still mostly speculative to me.
Bernadette describes this stage (which has been termed 'No-Self') as there being nothing more for the Self to learn. Hence its absence. Whether or not it has really gone, or whether it has just given up and is 'going with the flow' I do not know, but the result is the same: No more 'self-consideration'. All is quiet.
She describes a later level where the mind no longer focuses on specific objects - a state she has termed 'No-Where'. I cannot comment further on this, except to say that my own insights (in our book Essays in Truth) describe how the need for the dream of existence will eventually be lived out, and the dream will evaporate. But I am not in a hurry for this to happen. Just let me drive around for a while and see the sights, without my little gremlin in the backseat screaming at me.
Self-Avoidance / Self-Denial
I wanted to touch on something here briefly: The teaching of there being 'Nobody Here!'.
I have to say that I cannot see how it is useful to deny the existence of the self in one's attempt to go beyond it (a point Bernadette Roberts also states repeatedly). It may only be my own path, but the realising of God (for want of a better term) was an important step in the journey. Taking the car analogy further, I do not see how can one hope to have the 'self' that is screaming in the backseat disappear until they have first realised that they are not it? (As I see it) Simply repeating 'There is nobody here!' is delusional, and may serve only to prolong the time spent in the hypothetical backseat. In fact, it could be said that it is the creature itself that has adopted the mantra, hoping in vain that if it repeats it enough, one day it will come true - it will disappear. And of course, one day it will be true, but only after it accepts that it does exist and begins to confront the situation with presence and intelligence. So, I suggest self-denial or self-avoidance should not to be confused with the experience of No-Self, and furthermore are probably not the best means by which to realise it.
As I teach it, the path is first to see, and then to realise, that you are not the self (the emotional monster). You are the space within and behind what you thought was you. Here you find the knowledge that everything comes from this space, and in this you are alone, but complete. Whatever 'you' are, this is all that is, this space that you call 'I'.
Eventually, when you have lived enough in this state, 'No-Self' will come looking for you. There is nowhere to hide. :o)
Thank you
続きます。
The Truth behind the experience of Liberation or No-Self, By Nick Roach, ニック・ローチによって - 02
2013-06-21 12:15:56 | 話題 (opinion)
